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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: May 29, 2007 7:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: If you're in a hurry

Someone's selling an advance promo CD of Three From the Vault:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GRATEFUL-DEAD-Three-From-The-Vault-advance-promo-cd-07_W0QQitemZ260123379452QQihZ016QQcategoryZ447QQcmdZViewItem

It closes in six days, so you could have your copy in a little over a week--about three weeks ahead of schedule. Me, I'm waiting.

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Poster: HiRoller Date: May 29, 2007 7:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: If you're in a hurry

Suuure. They don't even mention the date of the concert, doubt it's real.

Edit: Nevermind, they updated it with new pictures, and yeah, it does look kind of real.

This post was modified by HiRoller on 2007-05-30 02:51:13

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: May 29, 2007 7:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: If you're in a hurry

what could they release that we dont already have????and is it worth it!!!!

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Poster: HiRoller Date: May 29, 2007 8:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: If you're in a hurry

According to the pictures, it's 2/19/71. It looks like an okay show, but doesn't really look to be anything too special.

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: May 29, 2007 7:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: If you're in a hurry

whirlwind dreamer lots of shows they have that don't circulate in good quality or not at all.check out david and the taper section at dead.net.he's put out songs in mp3 that does not circulate or circulates in a crappy source.

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: May 29, 2007 8:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: If you're in a hurry

yeah thats true tiger!!dave is the man these days,i do get most of what he send's us. kinda wish it was more dvd stuff, but my beef is why hurry if we might already have a version of the show any way???? for me, the new year cow palace is a perfect example!!!! don't get me wrong tiger its all good!!! peace:) wwd

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Poster: cush212 Date: May 29, 2007 10:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: If you're in a hurry

Where's mine??? I work in retail music & dvd and that does look like a legit promo, though it is still a ways out, so someone must be well connected or be a thief, to have it this soon... And I doubt anyone well connected would put it on ebay or whatever...I get a lot of promo cd's a week or so before release, but never, what 3, 4 weeks for this? Regardless, very bad karma to BUY or SELL something like this... Copying and sharing is one thing, but...

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Poster: Fishead Date: May 30, 2007 6:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: If you're in a hurry

the dude seems like a reliable seller ..has a high approval rating and looks like he sells alot of music memorabilia...

the what's the difference if he's selling this or a without a net promo l/p?? so what's the big deal??

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 30, 2007 5:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Tunnelvision part 357

A quick point that no one mentions when arguing over what Rhino should or should not release. YOU may have a dl of this or that show, I may have a dl of it, it may still be on gdlive, the upgrade may not be that great--but you are being shortsighted. 10,000 copies of the Fillmore West box? I'll bet 9,000 of them didn't have the free dl (which suffered from lots of cuts anyway). Of these 9,000, I daresay that at least half don't even know that there are dls on the net. Of the rest, not everyone has the savvy, the time, or the interest to dl.

Most folks here rank between the mildly obsessive fan and the overly obsessive (no criticism implied--there are worse hobbies!). For you (us), there isn't much out there that we can not find or trade for. But Rhino is not concerned with the small segment of potential customers that we represent.
They have a bottom line: what will sell? What will make money? The download series seemed to fill that need for previously unreleased material. But the Vault series fills the need to reach a larger group of paying customers.

Otherwise--why bother?

Besides, we all have preferences. I don't give a flip what the next release is; someone will complain while others will jump for joy.


Believe me; if 3 from the Vault doesn't perform well, the whole project will be rethought yet once again.

One last thought: it has been 12 years since the group ended (more if you are cynical). There are fewer and fewer people who hang on to things from the past, and fewer and fewer old timers who give a toot. Dead.net ultimately failed to market the Vault at a profit in large part because the market i rapidly shrinking. I fear that the vault will soon be sealed up and placed in the Smithsonian.

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Poster: stilldead77 Date: May 30, 2007 9:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

Thoughts well taken brother. I think Sirius Radio will lift the culture back up (does it ever really fade?) and bring new and open minds in. Can't say enough about them not releasing what we want. We are a very fine tuned group on here, a little of everything and we all kindda feel the same way about the lack of releases and the way things are being handled on all fronts.

Let's see what happens this summer with releases, Sirius Radio, our collective forum consciousness and all the birds who will start singing our tune -- from tree to shining tree.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 30, 2007 10:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

"Can't say enough about them not releasing what we want."

Who is "we," and what do "we" want? And if "we" don't get what "we" want, will we wave our hands and send Rhino bad vibes?

Sorry: but to the corporate Dead and Rhino, "we" are a very, very small part of a much larger universe, one that doesn't whine when it doesn't get its first choice. That is the universe that flooded stadiums and halls for 30 years without complaining when the band didn't play Morning Dew.

If the hoardes feel as you do--that 2-19 isn't da bomb, don't purchase it. Otherwise, accept what they choose to do with their vault and hope that your choices make it to cd at some point.



And whining here is meaningless: write Rhino with your suggestions.

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Poster: stilldead77 Date: May 30, 2007 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

I am a pig in shit on this site, with the friends I have made and the music that is being shared. I could give two shits what the hell they do -- you're right, it's a much bigger world. Complaining is not a burden with me...this bird is full of joy.

Nice thread, keep em coming.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 30, 2007 11:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

I agree wholeheartedly. One thing about the Dead--oh, hell, music in general--you sure can make some good friends--even on a chat board. It IS about sharing the music, not just sitting alone in the dark with headphones on (though that can be a lot of fun, too!!).

And that's the whole point--if you don't care for what Rhino releases, keep on walking until you find what you seek.

Me: I'd love to see spiffy cleaned up tapes from a lot of shows--Europe '72, more early west coast shows, etc. Some of those 16 track recordings! And I'd jump on a release of those "Formerly the Warlocks" shows from 1989. Mixed and ready to hear!

I really liked what GDP was doing for awhile: 16 track series, special boxes, DP 2 tracks, downloads that we didn't have--a nice spectrum--something for everyone. And I must admit, Rhino sure seems slow getting out of the box.

I doubt we'll live to see the whole vault digitized; but there is plenty to go around.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 30, 2007 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

Big arguement against direct downloads for commercially released cd's is the sound quality, but there may be hope on the horizon. Currently, commercial songs available for download come along with DRM systems that prevent illegal copying (its this type of technology that prevents a download from being able to be played on ALL media devices), the other big downside of this is that current downloads are at a rate of 128 kbps. This diminishes the overall sound quality on playback, making it well below "CD Quality", a big drawback for the true audiophiles among us (similar to "Lossy" v. "Lossless"). Recently, iTunes and EMI have announced that the entire EMI catalog will now be made available in both the AAC format (a slightly superior type of encoding compared w/ MP3) and without DRM. This will now allow a rate of 256 kbps, acheiving a much closer to "CD Quality" playback (which would now work on ANY media player). If GD material can be made available in such an improved format, I know that I would be much more likely to purchase.
But, like you say, it is theirs to do with as they see fit, like it or not. I, for one, feel very fortunate that we have had such free access to such a vast quantity of their material for so long and have no issues with Rhino, yet. And as long as we continue in the spirit of free trading that has kept the music alive and helped expose it to new "followers" (as well as allowed many of us to make, and continue making, new friends), I think we'll be ok.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 30, 2007 12:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

Howsomeever, downloads from bands such as the Dead, Pearl Jam, the Allmans, et al. are usually available in mp3---FLAC. FLAC and Shn are lossless. I believe that GDP made things available in both lossy and lossless forms.

But count me in as one of those suckers who loves the full package.

Here's a curious note (for those who care): Pearl Jam, who was the first band to offer all of its concerts in cd format, switched to dls to save their fans a few bucks. (The 2000 and 2003 tours were cd, the 2005 was lossy dl, and the 2006-7 in lossy or flac.) These shows were mixed immediately following each show and came with dowloadable covers. The recent mixes are pretty rough matrixes, so PJ is releasing a separate package--a 7 cd box set from three of its shows, remixed from multi track. They will no doubt sell like hotcakes despite the fact that over 70 concerts have been released from this tour and the fact that all 70 plus can now be had for free.

The point is that there are plenty of folks who want the cleanest, prettiest package they can get! Same with the GD--like I said, I'm one of the suckers!

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Poster: midnight sun Date: May 30, 2007 2:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

trying to pin down the demographics of a moving underground target that refuses to be categorized must be the ultimate challenge in futility to any corporate marketing division...good luck!

as far as marketing this stuff to the masses, forget it...imbalanced mixes of performances riddled with out of tune vocals, miscues and extended instrumental Controlled-Kaos that most people think of as pure nonsense...the average person doesn't have enough fascination with the X-factor nor the necessary tools of selective hearing that deadheads have cultivated in order to get past the rubble to the rubies

i remember the band having a major falling out about 5 or 6 years ago...they wanted to rough mix and digitize the entire vault and put it all up for grabs on the net as a testament to their art form ("it's not doing anyone any good sitting in the vault" - Mickey), with only Phil dissenting on the grounds of quality control...i know that this is out of their control now (barring any fine print vetoes), but what do you think GOP, is this still a valid issue?

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 30, 2007 4:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

I seem to find who said what to whom and when hazy at best. God knows what goes on behind closed doors.

I think it is incredible that you can dl as much as you can on various dotorgs. I could never listen to it all--even just a few years--and really absorb it.

When I consider that back in the day (say 1971), most of what we had was a fist full of hissy auds that we drooled over, I think what is out there is a true blessing, not to be abused or belittled.

I can see the debate over what to release--what you and I want as opposed to what they think is good. I've got my list; you've, no doubt, got yours.

It's a mess, to say the least. But it's a mess with a whole lot more good than bad in it.

Bottom line for this ghost: keep 'em coming. I'll gladly pay for the ones I want, just like any other consumer. I wish they'd started this thirty years ago!!!

And, yes, you can't please everyone. But you can sure as hell try!

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Poster: stilldead77 Date: May 30, 2007 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

Well said.

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Poster: cush212 Date: May 30, 2007 3:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

I always complained if I didn't get Dew'd!!!

;)

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 30, 2007 4:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

no bad vibes from me toward Rhino - if they can't get a handle with what i already out there - and what us heads are looking for - it just means that their sales ratio might suffer a bit - not alot - but a bit. i aint buying something i already have a pristine board of.

they need to research what is "not" out there


no skin off my back if they can't figure it out - etree rules!!!!

This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2007-05-30 23:11:49

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 30, 2007 5:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

Exactly, Mr. Wolf. Why buy the cow when the milk's free?

But a lot of folks are cowless, so they got the Cow Palace.

Seriously: I think that an outsider or a peripheral head (or one who doesn't have time/energy/inclination/knowledge) would enjoy most of their releases--and that is the goal of Rhino.

Let's see what they do in the next few months and hope for the best. Meanwhile, give Rhino some credit for the reissues and the recent box sets. And remember that the boys are a bunch of acid riddled musicians who have never been good at business.

I'm going to start a thread asking folks to pick the top five concerts they'd like to see Rhino release.

What say you, Sir Wolf?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 30, 2007 5:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

ok ghost - i will certainly give you that one - though i do think they are losing some sales by not researching their fan base enough. but i do hear you. i just don't think there are enough "non-heads without the cow" left to make the venture viable without Rhino researching, asking, sending questionaires via dead.net. They are minimizing their profit, when it would take little effort to maximize.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 30, 2007 5:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

I don't know if you were around in the fall of 1971 when they first did the Deadhead's unite thing on "Skullfuck."

Brilliant move; they sent out all sorts of stuff, and we loved it.

So, I agree with you about voicing your opinion. I would suggest that they take their mailing list and send out a questionnaire to those who do purchase or have purchased to see what they would like. That's good marketing when you are taking a water filled ship and trying to relaunch it. Tough to be the captain without enough sailors.

Dick did that early on with the DP program. He was also in touch as a fan with what folks wanted to hear.

Of course, I also believe that the choices would be all over the map. Lots of folks would love to have a perfect copy of 8-27-72 while others would say that they have that one already.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 30, 2007 5:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

very true ghost - and i agree that maybe a quuestionnaire wouldn't help - you are right - we all probably would be all over the map. it was just a though.

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Poster: TheGreat_and_Knowledgable Date: May 30, 2007 7:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

just something for all of you old timers. Im only 17 and their are plenty of people in my school who listen to The Dead all the time. Myself included. Now on you guys ranting about people alrdy having this show. My uncle is a huge head, seen 50+ shows. Traded tapes, the whole deal. I just showed him last month the archive, speedingarrow, etree, the whole deal. He nearly shit himself. Not to bash on you guys, but the majority of people your age (average deadheadish age) are not very good with computers and technology in general. MY uncle probably would buy this next release because of that.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 30, 2007 7:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

hey - i always admit i could be wrong

thank you for that update in your world - and i am quite sure you are not alone in that

i'm only talking from one side of the fence - i do realize there is another side - point taken my friend

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Poster: mcglone Date: May 30, 2007 7:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

"Not to bash on you guys, but the majority of people your age (average deadheadish age) are not very good with computers and technology in general."

shhhh don't tell john perry barlow ; )

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Poster: cush212 Date: May 30, 2007 7:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

My lips are sealed...

:)

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Poster: cush212 Date: May 30, 2007 5:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

Another take though... If Rhino put's all the best stuff out first... Then what?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 30, 2007 5:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

then they make interest off all our money???

good point (i as being facetious)

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Poster: cush212 Date: May 30, 2007 5:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

Not mine... I'll be putting the advance promos on ebay...

;)

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Poster: nagdot Date: May 30, 2007 8:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

i would say as long as places like archive or other download/stream sites are out there, the likelyhood of anyone makin money on sales of cds and dvds by any method other then to release them on the internet will fail. new bands are bypassing big record labels to eliminate the money grubbing execs who only pay the band 1$ per disc. by utilizing the internet they are producing discs of better quality and quantity, making a bigger profit with just releasing said discs on the net. payday is around 8$ per disc.i mean wat could rhino break out that anyone hasnt already heard or downloaded theres no win win for anyone just a 20 dollar disc that will be free on the internet .also i lived in many states in my life and not alot of ppl know of jerry garcia they may know of the grateful dead by songs on the radio but thats bout it.last time i saw ratdog it was a bunch of young rude kids the lot was even worse perhaps the new generation of hard drugs created it. unless your a true deadhead long gone are the kind days of the grateful dead legacy . with the exception of studio records everyone has heard every show in some form or another and its always been free thru trading or the internet. by buying anything released that is live is really just payin execs and not the band .the way to support the band is to see them live, am i correct plz respond thanx

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Poster: Fishead Date: May 30, 2007 9:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

they are counting on serius radio to help spread the karma

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 30, 2007 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

Obviously, there are tons of deadheads old and new out there. The statement that they are popular and will be is pretty obvious. And there are plenty of downloads.

BUT the topic I rose was the release of material such as FTV 3, and the choice of material. It is a question of what to release. Not everyone downloads, so not everyone has 2-19. And there are obviously enough folks who will buy product to keep the cds going. As noted, they sold out the Fillmore box set in a few weeks, and many of those ended up on ebay for $300.

So, yes, there are plenty of heads out there. And there are plenty who do not have 2-19-71 or who wish a pristine copy with all the trimmin's. If you don't like a given release, don't buy it. But Rhino is a business--complete with execs--and they must roll the dice and choose what they feel is the best release in terms of sales.

This has nothing to do with download availability or what you or I might prefer. This is simply bottom line. ANd if you don't like the corporate line, don't buy the product.
As to 2-19--there are worse choices out there. At least Rhino is finally starting to roll the ball.

And yes, it would be great if they started the download series back up. Please note, too that you could dl Dick's Picks and other cds as well as buy the hard copy. You do have a choice.

If I took a poll of what concert yo would like to have released next, there would be dozens of suggestions.

Perhaps those who are disappointed ought to write in to Rhino--just as Dick asked for suggestions for DP.

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Poster: Olo Date: May 30, 2007 7:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

The Grateful Dead will continue to maintain interest for decades. There may be peaks and valleys but their legendary music and mythos will keep them timeless and captivating long, long after we are gone.

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Poster: Fishead Date: May 30, 2007 6:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

dude i am 41 amd i'd say alot of heads in my generation are still into the band and the younger generation is keeping up with them ..check out ratdog shows or phil shows . notice the young heads ?. i have a neighbor 15 yrs old never seen the dead or had an older bro who went and he love the dead . . is he a rarity..i don't think so ..the dead are very popular amongst the younin' in school ..my girlfriends daughter says everyone wears tie-dye and they all know who jerry is...guess it matters' where you live.

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Poster: DEADBUCK Date: May 30, 2007 7:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tunnelvision part 357

I found out about the LMA from a college kid who never went to a show but loves the dead just from what hes heard. This mind you was only 2 or so years ago. And I am on the right coast. This kid fell so in love he would go see cat dog and even hung with Vince a while ago after some show he did. He did say Vince was a cool cat too. So I think they are still influencing folks. I have also noticed a recent outbreak of little gold metal Steal your faces on gas flaps of cars. so i say WTF!